VOTT 210 cabinets

[RacerXtreme]

Hi everyone! I'm new to this board. Have a question about 210 cabinets. Got 4. With wings. Had 515's in them. Sold all 8. Has anyone tried to put some better woofers (JBL 2225's ???) in the 210 boxes? Had a lot of fun with the 515's but came to realize their limitations. Thanks,

Guy

[Fitts]

What are you planning to use the cabinets for? Bass, PA, general music? What were the "limitations" that you ran into?

[RacerXtreme]

I plan on using the A2 system (two 210 cabinets per side) mostly at home. Used them for large weddings / occasions for years. They're on really good casters so they roll easily. Occasionally I will drag them out for some low end use in a PA. Might rent or lease them out too. In essence, they'll be used for a lot of different things. The "limitations" I was referring to were the way they "ran out of gas" when I pushed them hard. If memory serves me correctly, they are 108db @1w,1m. Yeah they're loud & efficient, but seems like some good JBL 15's would perform much better than the Altec 515's.

[Fitts]

I have A7 cabinets and have tried JBL 2205's, EV-15M's and EV Force 15's in them. I thought the JBL's were kind and dull but sure could handle huge amounts of power, especially bass. The Force 15's can't handle a lot of bass but to me are the best overall sounding of the three. The 15M's handle lots of power and do it well but only down to around 40 hz then they seem to fade away quickly. I think part of the problem is the 15M wants a smaller box than the A7. If the internal volume of the 210 is around 4 cubic feet per woofer you might try the 15M. They tend to go cheap on eBay compared to JBL and Altec stuff.

Once, I listened to a pair of A7's with Altec 416 woofers in them that were up for sale. They sounded really great and would probably be my choice if money were not an issue.

Just my 2 cents worth,

[RacerXtreme]

Hey Dave, I've had a few pair of A7 cabinets too. The 210 cabinets are nearly twice the size of the A7. They are 84" tall, 39" deep, and 30"
(I think it's 30...) wide. They are HUGE. Woofers that work well in the A7's may not in the 210's because of the increase in internal volume. You didn't say anything about the JBL 2225's. Ever listen to them? Very powerfull & lots of punch. I have heard the EV's and I do like them. Let's face it, the 515's just don't handle lots of power. I sold 8 of them and 11 or 12 Altec 288's + 4 ten cell (2x5) horns (think they were 1005B's with 100 degrees horizontal and 40 degrees of vertical dispersion).

Guy

[Roland N R]

When already have 110 dB/W/m do not really need the additional power handling of lower resolution cone/VC. You will have a hard time getting anything better than a 515B or 515-8G for these cabs or horn designs on general

[scott fitlin]

Your about to find out! Unfortunately, for you, JBL woofers dont sound quite right in Altec boxes. Yes, JBL,s will handle more power and have more bottom end punch, but will not go up into the midrange like the Altec 515,s! But they will allow you to push them harder with bass heavy music, without over excursion!

That said, let me make MY recomendation to you! If seriously great bass, really clean, and a woofer that will go up into the mids like a JBL, go with the TAD-1603. This woofer can handle 500 watts, Its bass puts the JBL to shame! You will still need to retro fit it into the 210, just like you will the JBL! The TAD is a 16 inch frame! Tad drivers have ( IMO ) the best sound of all woofers and compression drivers in manufacture today! I am switching to TAD, and what Im hearing is bass that purrs, and the sound never hurts you. You can just stand in front of the speaker and it doesnt hurt. And TAD,s are sooooo clean.

[scott fitlin]

Or, you can also opt to try the NEW Iconic 15,s. They have higher power handling, Altec sound, and will work in your 210,s right out of the box!

[stpower]

Guy,
Never tried JBL,s in 210 cabinets and don't ever plan to.I don't think you can beat the 515-b or 515g in this enclosure. I think 2 or 4 large bass reflex would be preferable for the JBL,s(use 4 woofers per side) and would be about the size of the 210. Since you would rent these for PA work, the logistics of moving the smaller boxes would work out better. You would get more low bass also.

stpower

[Roland N R]

The A4=210 cab needs reduction in internal volume
to 18-20 cubic feet for the two Altec woofers to perform adequately especially if using SS amps.

Jim Dickenson described modifications regarding these changes and others. These can be seen at the Sound Practices site under Altec.

Basically his recommendations were stiffening the cab and removing one foot from the bottom to give about 10 cubic feet/driver of internal volume. You can even reduce the height further than just one foot if you open up the upper flare space which is blocked up in the stock
cab. Depending on which driver you use you can chop it down to about 5 1/2 foot. Of course the flares and cab need reinforcement


The 210 cab provides horn loaded response to only about 80Hz. Lower bass then comes from the bass reflex cab below the horn flare. Deep bass response will then be lacking even with the wings

What to do?

I myself would instead separate the horn and those drivers from the space below and use
that space as a built in subwoofer via the new 18" Iconic (GPA) or 18" JBL 2245 or two Altec 515E or JBL 15" bass drivers. You will of course need to stiffen the cab and SS amp drive the sub. In other words six inches below the flares add a separating division then add single 18" or double 15" into that space well stuffed with fiberglass for a built in subwoof. The additional six inch vent below the flares will produce bass response from the horn loaded drivers plus you get sub response.

This way you squeeze response from everybit of that cab.

Good Luck

Roland
In o